Process driven and overlapping/shared roles and responsibilities for inpatient care | Quote 1 Registrar asks nurse (doing an extra shift from a different ward) whether the social worker had seen the patient as discussed in a grand round. The nurse leaves the bedside to check with ward staff who worked on the previous day. None of them had seen the social worker. A senior nurse (who just returned from leave today) enters the space. She is asked by the registrar, who wants to know who is in charge, why this order was not followed through. The senior nurse explains that she has been away and that the manager is off sick. The registrar mentions a list of people who he will report this to and compares it to another case, where a patient’s hospital stay was extended for weeks because a similar issue was not sorted. He says firmly: ‘I want this sorted out today!’. Frustrated, he pages through the patient’s notes and when he sees the medication charts, he aks: ‘Why is this in such a mess? It’s like dog meat!’… He then asks if the patient has any lines in situ. The nurse lifts the sheet off the patient’s arms and hands, saying she doesn’t think so. The researcher points towards an intravenous bag connected to a line running under the sheets down the middle half of the bed. The team follow the line and find that the patient has a central line in the left groin. The registrar asks for the line to be removed. Observation notes, Hospital A Ward round, CVTS Quote 2 A surgeon’s advantage is that, we have a lot of medical background, obviously because we all go through the same training, but unfortunately what the medical doctors lack is the surgical background, which is not easy, I mean if we read up, we can get a lot of medical knowledge, but unless they are in the war zone they won’t learn any of the guerrilla warfare. I mean you know it is very difficult for them to actually think in our perspective of things. I might not realize for example, two days back, I operated on a lady for biopsy, infected biopsy and she is off antibiotic now. Move on to day 2 and they started her on cefaperazone-sulbactam, I stopped it yesterday, because the source control is attained, everything is fine, she is not having fever, no tachycardia and no leukocytosis, nothing, CRP is normal, already controlled, we can reserve it for her future.’ Consultant Surgeon (29), Hospital B, GI Quote 3 ‘You can’t do everything yourself. There are other fires to fight and you have to choose which one is going to burn down the forest first and sometimes they (registrars) have done all they can at that time. They’ve prescribed the antibiotics. Because they’ve got another patient to see, another patient to book for theatre, another patient needs to be treated before they can go to ICU, so they can’t physically follow antibiotics around all the time…so things get weighted. As I say, the patient is … if sepsis is their main problem and you’ve addressed it surgically, then the antibiotics need to happen. We think surgery is going to make them better, not the antibiotic, but they work together…we prescribe antibiotics and then we expect it to be done, because I don’t administer antibiotics. I don’t mix any antibiotics. I’ve never been shown how to do it. I have a reasonable expectation that that is their [nursing] job and that they will see it through.’ Consultant Surgeon (26), Hospital A, GI Quote 4 Surgeon A suggested to stop antibiotics as procalcitonin is low and cultures are negative. Surgeon B asked the team why an antibiotic was started. Surgeon A and C said: “patient’s platelet was low, and temperature was 990F”. They then had a discussion. Surgeon B wanted to continue the antibiotics for 7 days and Surgeon C also suggested the antibiotics be continued until the central line is removed. Surgeon A however wanted to stop the antibiotics as there was no indication to continue them. Finally, after an intense discussion, Surgeon B convinced Surgeon C that antibiotic should be continued. Surgeon A did not seem convinced by the decision. Field notes, Hospital B, A three-consultant led ward round, CVTS Quote 5 ‘One thing it [shared decision making between surgeons] prevents is loose cannons. If I write an antibiotic, somebody else is absolutely free the next day to question, “why is the patient on antibiotics?” And usually if it comes down to an objective analysis, if it is not based on evidence, it tends to be stopped sooner rather than later. For appropriate antibiotic therapy, having a team care model seems to be better than an individual. Individual persons tend to have their biases and when there are no crosschecks, the biases tend to carry on.’ Consultant Surgeon (21), Hospital B, GI |
Ownership for antibiotic management is focused within specialties | Quote 6 The consultant and registrar discuss the diabetic therapy for the patient on whom the registrar had performed emergency appendicectomy the previous evening. The registrar) retrieves, from her smartphone, a picture taken during the procedure. She shows the picture to the consultant and other registrars. When the consultant sees the picture, she immediately agrees to start antibiotics, telling the patient that the ‘uterus looks infected’ and that they were going to give antibiotics and then take out the drip and hopefully she could be discharged the next day. The consultant and two registrars present discuss the antibiotic regimen and the registrar who had operated, prescribes them onto the paper chart. He discontinues the co-amoxiclav and writes up azithromycin, ceftriaxone and metronidazole. He gives the chart to the nurse. She reads it and says that it doesn’t make sense as ‘they want the drip to come out’. The azithromycin frequency is a stat dose, while no frequency is written for the other two antibiotics. Field Notes, Hospital A, GI ward round Quote 7 ‘I promise you if I operate on a patient or my colleague operated on a patient, the patient must get better. We didn’t come here to make the patient sicker. You must have that in your mind. I light the lamp every morning, I pray for the health of my patients because they must go home, they have got families, they have got kids, I mean, what else are we going to do? Did we get into this job just to look at bloods? No, we got in this job to sort something out. That’s what’s a surgeon’s prerogative is, you are here to do something. A surgeon generally is one or two things, either I can help you or I can’t help you. If I can help you, I must help you. If I can’t help you, I tell you I can’t help you. I’ll send you for palliation, that’s it. We are not physicians; we don’t have much of grey, we are black and white. I can, I did, I put in a lot of hard effort here, get better, have a good life.’ Senior registrar (16), Hospital A, CVTS Quote 8 ‘Surgeons are still very powerful and when the patient is not doing well, sometimes science defies them, and you cannot do anything to stop. You know that what they are saying is not correct, but they are worried because their patients are doing badly, so you start meropenem today, ceftriaxone tomorrow, move on to ertapenem the day after and you are helpless, because the patient is doing badly and nobody can do anything. I think surgeons will have the final call because after all, it is the patient who comes to them and they operate and they are largely responsible for the outcome, however, suggestions [from anaesthetists, AMS, and ICU doctors] and seeing the consistency and inputs, which are there, they probably will build a sense of trust and then inputs could be shared as amicably as possible.’ Anaesthetist Consultant (23), Hospital B, GI Quote 9 ‘What we follow is that whoever has operated on that patient, you know he should not feel that somebody else has caused a problem for him, so we do tend to leave it like that, we do not pull rank there like I would suggest that can we stop it, but if he insists, I would not continue at all [to suggest changing antibiotic or stopping it]. Consultant Surgeon (2), Hospital B, GI Quote 10 ‘One of my old seniors used to say, ‘antibiotics might make a third-class surgeon a second-class surgeon, but they never make a second-class surgeon a first-class surgeon’. I know it is that fear that let me not to take a chance. I do not think it is a challenge rather, you know, fear that their own surgery will be inadequate. Most of them tend to be quite confident about the surgery, but they, we always have this feeling that something else, is going to make a difference in our results. Overtime when they see that it has not made a difference or they have seen across the spectrum, they tend to change those habits. I think it is more that fear of ‘let me not to take a chance and something might go wrong’ which is there.’ Consultant Surgeon (2), Hospital B, GI Quote 11 ‘The registrars (junior doctors) would be the ones, you are doing a ward round you see a wound that is not looking so good and you start antibiotics. You do the cultures and everything and you start antibiotics. The consultant will come in and say that perhaps these antibiotics are not a right choice, we should change it to this or discuss it with microbiology.’ Surgeon, Hospital A, GI Quote 12 And then if this [antibiotic prescription] happens in ICU a decision will be taken by the intensivist. They are the ones who will initiate antibiotics in most cases. And then if a decision is taken on the ward round, it is usually the intensivist together with the consultant cardio thoracic consultant who is there in that ward round. Surgeon (14), Hospital A, CVTS Quote 13 ‘We are working together as a team; that is a check. If I get overwhelmed by a patient’s situation and write something which is not rational at that point of time, for example, if I write a dose of colistin or polymyxin or tigecycline for a patient who probably does not need it, somebody in my team will sound it in the next day, so one dose would go but by then some discussions definitely arise, usually in ICU. So multiple discussions like that has now resulted in a situation where…. there is a restraint, especially in my team I have seen a restraint because there will be a fight otherwise, but many a time, these things are overlooked.’ Consultant Surgeon (11), Hospital B, GI Quote 14 ‘If the registrar initiated it we would continue it but we would also consult microbiology…that’s why we have rounds with microbiology so that we can consult and streamline because there is no use going broad- you need to be focused and that’s the big thing about our antibiotic protocol.’ Senior Registrar (16), Hospital A, CVTS |
Hierarchies restrict the integration of Infection prevention and control practices | Quote 15 One of the ICU consultants and one of the GI-acute surgeons discuss the patient’s progress and plan. The surgeon puts on an apron, ties it at the back and then puts on gloves and goes around to the patient’s bedside. He reaches out with his long-sleeve-clad arm and gloved hands to assess the patient’s wound, moving some pipes aside. The GI intern goes to the patient’s bedside, to help the surgeon. The ICU consultants slaps his hand away playfully, and tells him, ‘You don’t touch a patient in the ICU without gloves and aprons, especially this patient with Acinetobacter and Klebsiella. The intern remarked that this ICU works differently from where he normally works. The ICU consultant responds, saying that this is how he should work. The intern laughs and tells consultant that she must tell them. The consultant returns, ‘I’m telling you, take it back to them’. Observation notes, Hospital A, GI ICU ward round Quote 16 ‘We're generally fairly lackadaisical with hand washing, and barrier protection, so people will go into the room [patient isolation rooms] and it is a problem. I think I find the issue of, putting on aprons and gloves and not sitting on the patient’s bed is, you know you lose something. You know if you sit on the patient’s bed without aprons and gloves you have a much closer contact with the patient and it's, you know it's getting in the way of that relationship. And I think that, perhaps, when we have a colistin resistant drug, or a pan resistant bacterium, if there were people walking around in space suits everyone would take it a lot more seriously. But we've got a kind of like a blue apron and pair of gloves, perhaps the kind of whole HIV epidemic and our dealing of that is that we've become quite casual with infectious diseases. I think we are more casual than we should be. We've got a major problem with nursing ... they're overrun. There is just not enough of them… and the leadership from nursing isn't.. to me, you need a head-sister not letting doctors into the room unless they've got their apron on, and that sort of, it doesn't happen too much. I don't think they'd [doctors to head nurse] respond to it positively at all but they would do it.’ Consultant Surgeon (11), Hospital A, GI Quote 17 ‘We are auditing who are all the people touching the patients without hand washing. My name has come up many times, and all my colleagues’ names are there and a lot of anaesthesia colleagues also. One thing is that they know the nurses should be more proactive, and they should have a little more decision-making ability. They should say that okay, no you are a doctor, you have not washed your hands, so please wash your hand before touching. They are not able to say that. Why they are not able to say that is probably the hierarchy and their lack of confidence. See, if you are a nurse with a 10 to 15 years’ experience in the ICU, then you will have the confidence to say. If you are a nurse who has just came out from the nursing college and joined the cardiac surgery ICU, then they are scared to talk. There is basically a lot of fear.’ Consultant Surgeon (15), Hospital B, CVTS Quote 18 ‘The main source of infection is from the caregiver when they downplay the importance of handwashing and sometimes when the physician or surgeon is asked to have a hand wash before touching the patient, it may not end on a sweet note, but it plays a major role. If my primary worry is regarding the patient, definitely we will follow this and, in our ICU, each staff is assigned a particular patient for a few set hours. If some clinician is coming in and meeting that patient and if they are not washing their hand immediately, the nurse is noting down the person’s name and usually by the end of the week, this information is passed from the head of the department down to every one saying you are scrutinized. So, you do not want to hear your name repeatedly for the same mistake.’ Consultant Surgeon (14), Hospital B, I14 CVTS Quote 19 ‘Usually in surgery, main thing is that [to make sure] we are changing the dressings well, we are removing the drains. Those are the most important when sisters are giving drugs [through] IV [intravenous] lines, when they are taking care of the central lines and IV lines. Those are the most important things. Sisters are the ones who are going to give the IV, they are using the central line. They are going to give all the drugs, so they should be more conscious. They should wash their hands before touching the patient before giving the IV drugs. After giving drugs also they should wash because there is high chance that they can [introduce] infection directly to the central line which can cause blood borne sepsis, so that is more important, central line care and IV-line care. Then after that the wound infections and wound dressings while doing the dressings. Those two are the important ones.’ Registrar (7), Hospital B, GI Quote 20 We tell them [to practice IPC precautions] but they [doctors] just ignore us sometimes. Sometimes you meet difficult doctors and you see you can’t tell him or her. Then you just leave it. It is difficult. Nurse (34), Hospital A, GI Quote 21 “If it is in a ward, we can say the nurse’s role is important [ in infection control practice], but here in ICU, we can't say that only nurses role is important. It is true that nurses are the one who administer the medications and other things, central line use is more for nurses etc. but when there is an emergency, sometimes doctors do administer the medicine or doing an echo, like this many people are involved. So I feel, in the ICU both doctors and nurses have an equal role in the infection control practices.” staff nurse (34), Hospital B, CVTS Quote 22 When the nurse has been assigned a patient, the nurse can always tell anybody; it may be a doctor or any technician or anybody, if they are not following the infection control practice before touch his/her assigned patient, they can directly tell them to follow…. If the staff is less experienced, maybe below 6 months, they may not tell. They would be scared or hesitant to tell, but we train them to tell directly. Staff nurse (37), Hospital B, CVTS |
Patients as drivers for antibiotic prescribing decisions | Quote 23 And you are all talking about evidence-based medicine, but in India what matters is a socioeconomic factor. Socioeconomic factors decide the choice of therapy in most cases, not evidence based medicine and who is going to make that socioeconomic, patients won’t make, you have to as a doctor, you have to make that choice whether this is good for our patient, you know, or whether I should cut down this and give this. Consultant Surgeon (15), Hospital B, CVTS Quote 24 ‘If we had started IV antibiotic from the beginning, probably she would have improved quicker. We had initially begun treatment with IV antibiotic but since she could not afford it, it was changed to oral. Even though the microbiologist had suggested [stronger] antibiotics, we could not prescribe those as she wasn’t willing to buy them. We prescribed a [stronger] antibiotic towards the end when we could arrange it for free from the hospital pharmacy. However, this could only be given for 2 days.’ Surgeon (TBC), Hospital B, GI Quote 25 ‘The finance aspect plays a big role for selecting the antibiotic; … so in some patients who have complete financial restraints, we will have to maybe reduce the doses or take into consideration other drugs, which can cover the bacteria even though if it is not sensitive. So in those cases, the other thing that happens is they will want to go to another hospital, probably somewhere in medical college where the medicine is free.’ Pharmacist, Hospital B, GI Quote 26 ‘The surgeon informed me that I have a hernia. He said that a surgery would be required but it is not urgent […] Surgeon said that with medicines, the surgery could be postponed up to 3 months later. Since the surgery is inevitable, I wanted it to be done immediately as it would be difficult for me to get leave later from the firm where I am working.’ Patient 47, Hospital B. Quote 27 ‘You need to talk to [patients] I think, you need to tell them that: “okay you have a fever but the fever need not necessarily mean the presence of an infection… however, if you develop certain signs of an infection, then do come back to me and in that case I would definitely start an antibiotic for you”… basically to convince the patient. If I am able to convince the patient, the patient will go back happily, if I am not able to convince the patient, the patient will go from me to another surgeon, and to another surgeon, ultimately to a surgeon who will actually prescribe an antibiotic and then he would be happy, so he will go off doctor shopping.’ Surgeon, (6) Hospital B, GI Quote 28 ‘Patients don’t give a history of disease, but a history of antibiotics.’ Surgeon (6), Hospital B, GI |